Tribulation Perspectives

-: 00:13

Shalom, Grace and peace.

-: 00:16

In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

-: 00:21

My name is Daniel Miller and this is the Notes I Leave Podcast.

-: 00:33

Hello and welcome.

-: 00:34

I hope you're doing well.

-: 00:38

Sometimes it would be nice to simply say, hey, how are you doing?

-: 00:40

And have a response.

-: 00:45

But the nature of a podcast and how it's delivered, how it's recorded,

-: 00:46

that just isn't the case.

-: 00:50

But nevertheless, I do hope you're doing well and I thank you

-: 00:51

for joining me on this day.

-: 01:00

Today is week two of a three week series in which we discuss some eschatology. Eschatological.

-: 01:03

Eschatological, yeah, eschatology.

-: 01:08

And the viewpoints within eschatology and the things that I've

-: 01:12

learned over the last year or so, specifically last spring in

-: 01:14

a systematic theology course.

-: 01:17

And the topic of today will be Tribulation.

-: 01:19

The topic last week was Rapture.

-: 01:25

The topic next week will be Christ's millennial reign, his millennial kingdom.

-: 01:27

Looking forward to that one.

-: 01:32

Excited about what is taking place with the previous one and excited

-: 01:33

to be with you here.

-: 01:36

Now for this middle episode as it kind of brings us all together.

-: 01:40

The reason why I've done these in this order is is typical through

-: 01:44

the viewpoint that I agree with, that I share, that I hold to

-: 01:49

fast while here on earth, but not fast eternally.

-: 01:53

Again as I said last week, we need to be completely vulnerable

-: 01:57

to truth and the King of Kings, Christ Jesus.

-: 02:02

And if he states that my theology is in error in any part or in

-: 02:06

all parts, I need to be completely open to that and I will be

-: 02:07

completely open to that.

-: 02:11

Please don't use these viewpoints as a point of division, but

-: 02:15

use them as a point of education and discussion.

-: 02:21

So as we look at these and the reason they're in this order is

-: 02:27

by my pre tribulation, pre millennial viewpoint, the Rapture is

-: 02:31

an event where the church is taken to heaven.

-: 02:34

Both those who are dead in Christ and those who are alive in Christ,

-: 02:38

they will be met in the air as first Thessalonians 4 teaches us,

-: 02:43

met in the air by Christ and taken to heaven to be spared from

-: 02:46

a tribulation period, which the viewpoint that I hold to would

-: 02:53

define it as a seven year period which comes from the 70th week of Daniel.

-: 02:58

There's some confusion on even even that I have to this day on

-: 03:01

how weeks translates to then years.

-: 03:05

But most scholars will teach you that the weeks in the Hebrew

-: 03:10

translates to seven sevens and is generally accepted that it is

-: 03:14

seven years is is what they're speaking to in that regard.

-: 03:20

And the pastors that I've been under, any time I bring this up,

-: 03:23

they say, oh, that's an easy one, yada, yada yada.

-: 03:27

It translates to years, translates to seven years.

-: 03:30

Doesn't mean that that's something that people could be wrong on.

-: 03:34

But that is generally not a point of division.

-: 03:37

It's generally well accepted upon the scholars.

-: 03:42

So we talk about the tribulation today, and then the tribulation

-: 03:46

based on the pre millennial, pre tribulation viewpoint will then

-: 03:49

lead into Christ's reign over a thousand years.

-: 03:55

And so I chose to go rapture first, tribulation second, millennial

-: 03:58

reign third, to keep things in sort of a chronological perspective,

-: 04:01

which for me and my brain makes sense.

-: 04:07

Before we get too far into this week's episode on eschatology,

-: 04:12

specifically the Tribulation, I do want to have us open up to

-: 04:16

Scripture and we're going to read Matthew 24, verses 15 through 28.

-: 04:21

If I ever have an episode that doesn't reference scripture, that

-: 04:22

is a poor episode.

-: 04:26

And so the earlier I can get to God's Word, the better, because

-: 04:29

nothing I say is going to be better than what's already written, God's Word.

-: 04:31

And so we need to get to that.

-: 04:34

The beauty of the podcast is you can take this opportunity to

-: 04:39

pause this and you can open up Matthew 24, verses 15 through 28.

-: 04:43

It's always kind of a struggle for me when a pastor says, please

-: 04:47

open up to Matthew 24 verses 15 through 28, or any other section

-: 04:51

of Scripture for that matter, and they begin teaching while everybody's,

-: 04:52

you know, going through pages.

-: 04:55

I think that keeps people from opening God's Word.

-: 05:00

And so if this was live, I would give you at least a minute to get there.

-: 05:02

Since this is not live.

-: 05:05

One of the advantages of that is there is a pause button.

-: 05:10

I'm also delaying as I speak here, which hopefully gives you time

-: 05:11

to get God's Word open.

-: 05:16

But if you're not there yet, please pause and then re replay it

-: 05:18

or continue and we will go.

-: 05:21

So I'm assuming you've unpaused.

-: 05:22

Let's go with it.

-: 05:25

Matthew 24, verses 15 through 18.

-: 05:31

Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation which was

-: 05:35

spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place,

-: 05:38

let the reader understand then.

-: 05:42

Those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

-: 05:47

Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things

-: 05:48

that are in his house.

-: 05:53

Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.

-: 05:57

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing

-: 05:58

babies in those days.

-: 06:04

But pray that your flight will not be in the winter or on a Sabbath,

-: 06:07

for then there will be a great tribulation.

-: 06:11

Such has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now,

-: 06:12

nor ever will.

-: 06:17

Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved.

-: 06:21

But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

-: 06:26

Then, if anyone says to you, behold, here is the Christ, or There

-: 06:28

he is, do not believe him.

-: 06:32

For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show

-: 06:38

great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the

-: 06:44

elect, behold, I have told you in advance, so if they say to you,

-: 06:49

behold, he is in the wilderness, do not go out, or, behold, he

-: 06:52

is in the inner rooms, do not believe them.

-: 06:55

For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even

-: 06:59

to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

-: 07:03

Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

-: 07:11

What a powerful set of verses directly from Jesus's lips in Matthew

-: 07:13

24, verses 15 through 28.

-: 07:20

Not for me, as black and white is what we talked about last week

-: 07:23

in 1st Thessalonians 4, verses 13 through 18.

-: 07:31

But provoking for sure with some definite, clear warning signs,

-: 07:37

to not fall for false prophets, to to not fall for false Christs,

-: 07:43

to not believe that he is here in ways that he doesn't state that

-: 07:44

he will be here.

-: 07:46

He gives us a direct analogy.

-: 07:49

For just as the lightning comes, he too will come.

-: 07:52

So he's not in the wilderness, he's not in the inner rooms.

-: 07:53

He will come.

-: 08:00

I interpret in the sky like the tribulation, beginning of the

-: 08:03

tribulation in Thessalonians first Thessalonians 4 talks about.

-: 08:06

About coming in the air with a trumpet sound.

-: 08:09

I believe that's how we're going to know he's here.

-: 08:13

I think for most of us, the first realization of that will be

-: 08:17

the trumpets, and then we will likely in our hearts know what

-: 08:20

this means and look to the sky.

-: 08:26

And when I say we, I think that that encompasses that word elect there. Now, predestination.

-: 08:30

And that term elect is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people.

-: 08:33

I have mentioned it previously, and I'll go ahead and mention it again.

-: 08:37

I do not think it's in opposition to free will.

-: 08:43

There are two camps generally, and I find myself right in the middle.

-: 08:48

One camp believes in free will, one camp believes in predestination.

-: 08:51

I think that we're arguing over the wrong things.

-: 08:57

I think that if we really look at it with purity of heart, from

-: 08:59

God's perspective, He knows everything.

-: 09:01

Past, present, future, all things.

-: 09:05

He is transcendent inside of time and outside of time.

-: 09:11

There's no way that he couldn't know that you're going to come to Christ. So he.

-: 09:15

He does know who is elect and who will come forth.

-: 09:18

And so I do believe that predestination is true in that regard.

-: 09:22

However, your perspective and my perspective are not His.

-: 09:26

We are not transcendent to and through time.

-: 09:29

We do not know past, future, present.

-: 09:32

We may know some past, we may feel like we understand the present,

-: 09:36

but not to his level or anywhere, anywhere close.

-: 09:42

So in that regard for us, I do believe in free will and I believe

-: 09:46

that that is the division between the two, that we're focusing

-: 09:48

on it from different viewpoints.

-: 09:52

So whether you want to label me as free will or predestination,

-: 09:57

or perhaps a little bit of both, my 2 cents on the matter is that

-: 09:59

it's depending on the perspective in which we're looking.

-: 10:05

And since we can't fully look from his perspective, we can acknowledge

-: 10:10

his perspective, but we can't fully view from his perspective.

-: 10:13

Free will is just as valid as predestination.

-: 10:16

In predestination, this word elect comes up and I believe that's

-: 10:18

who he's talking about, is the predestined.

-: 10:22

Those that he knew would come to him by their own free will.

-: 10:24

You may disagree with that.

-: 10:25

I respect that.

-: 10:31

I don't hold fast to that, that I'm going to argue with God over that.

-: 10:34

Whatever he says goes his will, not my will.

-: 10:40

But I believe that is the most loving and, and viewpoint of the two.

-: 10:42

Viewpoints, which is a little bit of both.

-: 10:45

I think a lot of viewpoints are like that, that when we have two,

-: 10:47

neither extreme is the answer.

-: 10:51

It's generally somewhere in the middle in a lot of things, specifically

-: 10:57

in denominations and how we choose to unfortunately divide amongst churches.

-: 11:00

We are supposed to be one body, unity in Christ.

-: 11:04

And the churches that strive for that are the churches that I

-: 11:08

think are getting it right and are looked well in his eyes.

-: 11:14

Now when it says so as to mislead if possible, even the elect.

-: 11:18

I'm not going to stand on any hill there and say that I know for

-: 11:20

sure that's flat out confusing to me.

-: 11:24

I don't know how the elect would be swayed.

-: 11:28

But many of us have experience where somebody that was a strong

-: 11:32

member in church and they've gone away from the church, so perhaps

-: 11:36

they were referred to as elect at One period of time and they've gone away.

-: 11:39

So will there be people who are elect?

-: 11:42

If we can use that term, that will be misled. It.

-: 11:48

It seems so probably not super common because it says if possible,

-: 11:50

but it seems like that's a possibility.

-: 11:54

And I sure hope that's not you or I in that time.

-: 12:00

We're so wrapped up in eschatology, we're so wrapped up in what

-: 12:03

is to come and answering the questions regarding the future.

-: 12:07

It's a weird fascination that we have as humans that I can see

-: 12:11

how if people say, behold, he's in the wilderness, or behold,

-: 12:15

he's in the inner rooms, that we would run for that to see our

-: 12:17

Savior, Lord Jesus.

-: 12:22

But if we just turn to Matthew 24, verses 15 through 28, he tells

-: 12:24

us that's not how he's coming.

-: 12:29

For just as the lightning comes from the east and even flashes

-: 12:32

to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

-: 12:37

I hope that this is beneficial for you.

-: 12:41

I know it will be if you sink your teeth into it, if you study it out.

-: 12:47

And I look forward for you for that opportunity to do so.

-: 12:53

My takeaway from this verse and from this discussion over the

-: 12:58

tribulation period, which I believe is a seven year period, is

-: 13:05

that our viewpoints again should not be points of tension, should

-: 13:07

not be points of division.

-: 13:09

They should be points of discussion and education.

-: 13:15

And I really found that to be the case in this systematic theology

-: 13:17

course that I attended last spring.

-: 13:19

It was a wonderful experience.

-: 13:25

It is from a seminary that leans on the premillennial pre tribulation view viewpoint.

-: 13:30

But I never sensed that having an opposing view would do anything

-: 13:34

to your place or status at that college, at that seminary.

-: 13:38

I felt like all viewpoints were discussed equally and I felt like

-: 13:44

all viewpoints were encouraged and loved and that God's word was

-: 13:48

what we were utilizing to defend different positions.

-: 13:55

And yes, I am defending from, not really defending, but showing

-: 13:58

things that have been very apparent to me and have sort of jumped

-: 14:01

off the page of Scripture for me.

-: 14:05

But there wouldn't be other viewpoints if there weren't other

-: 14:07

sections of scripture that would defend that.

-: 14:14

And so in tribulation we basically have pre tribulation, which

-: 14:16

is the viewpoint that I hold to.

-: 14:23

We have mid tribulation and we have our third category, which

-: 14:25

is sort of a pre wrath category.

-: 14:32

We also do have post tribulation, but that is kind of in a separate

-: 14:33

category a little.

-: 14:33

Well, a little bit.

-: 14:39

So if we define the tribulation as a 77 year period which is the

-: 14:40

70th week of Daniel.

-: 14:43

That means that 69 weeks have already occurred.

-: 14:46

And if you go back and research this out in Scripture, the math

-: 14:52

adds up on that time frame from the period of Daniel until Christ

-: 14:53

on the cross.

-: 14:59

The viewpoint is that time essentially stopped at the cross and

-: 15:03

we are awaiting that restart of time which would be the tribulation

-: 15:08

period where Christ comes back, raptures the church for a number of reasons.

-: 15:10

That's why I hold to that viewpoint.

-: 15:15

But keep in mind with the pre tribulation, that is really that

-: 15:18

the rapture comes before the tribulation.

-: 15:21

That's what pre tribulation means.

-: 15:28

It's not does the rapture occur or not, it's when the rapture occurs.

-: 15:33

A mid tribulation likely would still subscribe to that seven year

-: 15:37

period, but would say that the Rapture occurs at the three and

-: 15:38

a half year mark.

-: 15:43

Now the hard part for me for that is that we then have signs that

-: 15:48

occur and Jesus tells us that no one will know the hour, make

-: 15:52

sure your oil lamps are full and the Father is the only one that knows.

-: 15:57

So I disagree with the mid tribulation standpoint because now

-: 16:02

we have three and a half years of things that would occur or whatever

-: 16:05

the time frame is, things that would occur, that would be signs

-: 16:10

that we are in the end times, in the eschatology period.

-: 16:15

But their agreement is that the rapture is coming.

-: 16:18

Their disagreement is when the rapture is coming.

-: 16:24

The third viewpoint within that sort of when the rapture is coming

-: 16:25

is a pre wrath.

-: 16:31

Now most believe that in a seven year period, the last year, year

-: 16:35

and a half, maybe two years of that seven years is a wrath of

-: 16:38

God period, sort of the worst of the tribulation.

-: 16:45

And if you subscribe to a pre wrath viewpoint, the church rapture

-: 16:48

will occur right before that wrath period starts.

-: 16:54

So again, your disagreement between the other two viewpoints is

-: 17:00

when the tribulation period is raptured, where the rapture fits

-: 17:01

into that tribulation period.

-: 17:05

You may have some subtle disagreements on the length of time of

-: 17:09

the tribulation period, but your main disagreement is when the

-: 17:13

Rapture is occurring, not if the rapture is occurring.

-: 17:18

Now you get into post tribulation and within post tribulation

-: 17:23

there's many more arguments and many more points of hopefully

-: 17:24

discussion, not division.

-: 17:29

But if we're in a post tribulation standpoint, the tribulation

-: 17:34

has already occurred and there has been no rapture and there is

-: 17:38

no rapture or there was a rapture that we're not aware of.

-: 17:42

That for me, is the hardest one to get on board with.

-: 17:45

Don't take my word for it.

-: 17:47

Please study this out. Right.

-: 17:52

Paul was most impressed with who the Bereans, because the Bereans

-: 17:56

took what he said, but then they tested it out to make sure that

-: 17:57

it was accurate.

-: 18:02

And so I'd encourage you to read last week's verse or verses,

-: 18:05

if you haven't seen that episode or if you haven't opened God's

-: 18:06

word for that yet.

-: 18:10

First Thessalonians 4, verses 13 through 18, that talks about

-: 18:13

the tribulation or the beginning of the tribulation period, the Rapture.

-: 18:16

Excuse me for saying the beginning.

-: 18:18

That's from my viewpoint.

-: 18:19

It talks about the Rapture.

-: 18:22

You may believe it occurs at a different point in time, time,

-: 18:25

but it talks about the Rapture, which I believe is the beginning

-: 18:27

of the tribulation period.

-: 18:33

And then today we're talking about Matthew 24, 15:28, which details

-: 18:38

that there will be a tribulation period and also details in agreement

-: 18:45

with 1st Thessalonians 4, 13, 18, how Christ will come through the sky.

-: 18:49

I hope that this has been of value to you today.

-: 18:51

I know that it's certainly valuable for me.

-: 18:55

One of the reasons why I wanted to continue this podcast on is

-: 18:58

because it's such a great accountability for me to be in God's

-: 19:00

Word and continue forward.

-: 19:03

It's also an opportunity for me to share things that I've learned

-: 19:08

in this systematic theology course in future courses like Greek

-: 19:13

and Hebrew as I go along, not only as a reminder to myself, but

-: 19:17

to my children, my peers, my students, etc. Etc.

-: 19:25

So again, my take home is basically sharing.

-: 19:30

My application, if you will, is sharing what I've learned through those things.

-: 19:33

The quote for today is from Charles Spurgeon.

-: 19:34

Love his quotes.

-: 19:39

It says this passage of Daniel is exceedingly deep, but it teaches

-: 19:44

us at least this much that there is a fixed and certain time when

-: 19:50

God will accomplish his purposes, both of mercy and of judgment,

-: 19:53

towards his ancient people and towards the world.

-: 19:56

We didn't really get into in this discussion.

-: 20:00

We will a little bit more next week in the millennial reign about

-: 20:02

the differences between the Church and Israel.

-: 20:05

But that's what he's referring to with his ancient people, Israel

-: 20:11

and the church, us, and then the world who doesn't believe in Christ.

-: 20:16

Great quote that you should detail more, that you should study out more.

-: 20:20

And my question to finish off here is very similar to last week's.

-: 20:24

What is your view on not the Rapture, but the tribulation period?

-: 20:26

Which would likely encompass the Rapture as well.

-: 20:32

And is that viewpoint a means of division or discussion and education

-: 20:35

amongst brothers and sisters in Christ?

-: 20:40

If you feel called to support us further, we would be honored

-: 20:41

for you to do that.

-: 20:45

Go to biblicalanatomyacademy.com click on podcasts.

-: 20:49

There's a big huge picture right there at the top of the webpage

-: 20:51

to support the podcast.

-: 20:55

Click on that picture and it'll take you to an option to subscribe

-: 20:59

to us for $12 a month to get access to the second part each episode.

-: 21:03

And with that segue in place, let's go ahead and transition to

-: 21:04

this second part.

-: 21:05

This Members Only section.

-: 21:09

For those of you not continuing with us, thank you for your time.

-: 21:10

I love you.

-: 21:14

I hope that this segment has been of benefit to you and as always, God Bless.

-: 21:20

Until next time.

-: 21:22

May the peace of Christ dwell richly in you.

-: 21:28

And may I also express express maranantha, which is an Aramaic

-: 21:30

word translating to come Lord Jesus.